Comments on: Called out for sexism. Ouch! http://www.saunderslog.com/2007/02/06/called-out-for-sexism-ouch/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=called-out-for-sexism-ouch An outcome-driven leader, proven technology product developer, and marketer with over 20 years of hands-on experience including start-up, small and large business environments, and the board room. This is my blog. Thu, 26 Jan 2012 17:15:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Off Topic :: Getting women into technology jobs http://www.saunderslog.com/2007/02/06/called-out-for-sexism-ouch/#comment-4476 Off Topic :: Getting women into technology jobs Sat, 10 Feb 2007 20:49:05 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2007/02/06/called-out-for-sexism-ouch/#comment-4476 [...] My post earlier this week about Alec Saunders’ sexist demo scenario at DemoCamp 12 (criticism that he took quite gracefully) led to both a blog post on his part, then an email and Skype discussion between us. [...] [...] My post earlier this week about Alec Saunders’ sexist demo scenario at DemoCamp 12 (criticism that he took quite gracefully) led to both a blog post on his part, then an email and Skype discussion between us. [...]

]]> By: Sandy Kemsley http://www.saunderslog.com/2007/02/06/called-out-for-sexism-ouch/#comment-4475 Sandy Kemsley Wed, 07 Feb 2007 16:52:45 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2007/02/06/called-out-for-sexism-ouch/#comment-4475 Alec, in response to your question, either alternative would be fine, although I don't think that a personal scenario adds anything to the demo since it is, as you note, for a primarily business audience. Alec, in response to your question, either alternative would be fine, although I don't think that a personal scenario adds anything to the demo since it is, as you note, for a primarily business audience.

]]> By: Martin Dufort http://www.saunderslog.com/2007/02/06/called-out-for-sexism-ouch/#comment-4473 Martin Dufort Wed, 07 Feb 2007 16:05:22 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2007/02/06/called-out-for-sexism-ouch/#comment-4473 Because of these posts, I love the ads that are *now pulled* on your blog site.... Guess we are using a very highly rated Google keywords.. Because of these posts, I love the ads that are *now pulled* on your blog site…. Guess we are using a very highly rated Google keywords..

]]> By: Martin Dufort http://www.saunderslog.com/2007/02/06/called-out-for-sexism-ouch/#comment-4471 Martin Dufort Wed, 07 Feb 2007 13:58:22 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2007/02/06/called-out-for-sexism-ouch/#comment-4471 Hey Alec: You also had an early warning about this at DemoCamp Ottawa 3. L8er - Martin Hey Alec:

You also had an early warning about this at DemoCamp Ottawa 3. L8er – Martin

]]> By: Alec http://www.saunderslog.com/2007/02/06/called-out-for-sexism-ouch/#comment-4474 Alec Wed, 07 Feb 2007 11:07:22 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2007/02/06/called-out-for-sexism-ouch/#comment-4474 Very ironic, isn't it... Very ironic, isn't it…

]]> By: Alec http://www.saunderslog.com/2007/02/06/called-out-for-sexism-ouch/#comment-4472 Alec Wed, 07 Feb 2007 10:38:56 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2007/02/06/called-out-for-sexism-ouch/#comment-4472 You're right Martin, but what I thought I heard at DemoCamp Ottawa was that people thought the scenario was geeky rather than sexist. I thought it could be made into something humorous, which I was what I tried in Toronto. Clearly I misread the whole thing. Lesson learned. You're right Martin, but what I thought I heard at DemoCamp Ottawa was that people thought the scenario was geeky rather than sexist. I thought it could be made into something humorous, which I was what I tried in Toronto. Clearly I misread the whole thing. Lesson learned.

]]> By: Alec http://www.saunderslog.com/2007/02/06/called-out-for-sexism-ouch/#comment-4470 Alec Wed, 07 Feb 2007 09:42:46 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2007/02/06/called-out-for-sexism-ouch/#comment-4470 Got it. If I understand your point correctly, then there are really two ways to fix this: 1. Portray Jill as a professional who happens to have a social life (ie. make her one of the John or Frank characters, and have the other ask her out). Or, 2. Since this is a product targeted at professionals, leave the personal scenario out of it altogether. Does that make sense? Got it. If I understand your point correctly, then there are really two ways to fix this:

1. Portray Jill as a professional who happens to have a social life (ie. make her one of the John or Frank characters, and have the other ask her out).

Or,

2. Since this is a product targeted at professionals, leave the personal scenario out of it altogether.

Does that make sense?

]]> By: Sandy Kemsley http://www.saunderslog.com/2007/02/06/called-out-for-sexism-ouch/#comment-4469 Sandy Kemsley Wed, 07 Feb 2007 04:05:27 +0000 http://saunderslog.com/2007/02/06/called-out-for-sexism-ouch/#comment-4469 Alec, it may not have been discriminatory (hence didn't match the 2nd definition of sexism that you quote above), but was right in line with the 1st definition, namely traditional stereotypes of sexual roles. The men in your scenario existed as business colleagues and friends, whereas the woman existed only as an object of sexual desire. Although that's a perfectly normal situation -- I'm all for dating ;) -- when we see demos where women are *only* ever presented as either objects of sexual desire or as technophobes/technodummies (the other common female stereotype), it reinforces the stereotypes to the audience. That, in turn, subconsciously tells all those little DemoCampers that it's okay for them to do the same in their demos in the future. Alec, it may not have been discriminatory (hence didn’t match the 2nd definition of sexism that you quote above), but was right in line with the 1st definition, namely traditional stereotypes of sexual roles. The men in your scenario existed as business colleagues and friends, whereas the woman existed only as an object of sexual desire. Although that’s a perfectly normal situation — I’m all for dating ;) — when we see demos where women are *only* ever presented as either objects of sexual desire or as technophobes/technodummies (the other common female stereotype), it reinforces the stereotypes to the audience. That, in turn, subconsciously tells all those little DemoCampers that it’s okay for them to do the same in their demos in the future.

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