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	<title>Comments on: Who&#8217;s the ARS now?  Google vs. Miro</title>
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	<link>http://www.saunderslog.com/2006/04/21/whos-the-ars-now-google-vs-miro/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=whos-the-ars-now-google-vs-miro</link>
	<description>An outcome-driven leader, proven technology product developer, and  marketer with over 20 years of hands-on experience including start-up, small and large business environments, and the board room. This is my blog.</description>
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		<title>By: Chris Nolan.ca</title>
		<link>http://www.saunderslog.com/2006/04/21/whos-the-ars-now-google-vs-miro/#comment-1460</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Nolan.ca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 03:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saunderslog.com/?p=2376#comment-1460</guid>
		<description>You may be interested in the Google Logos blog - &lt;a href=&quot;http://googlelogos.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://googlelogos.blogspot.com/&lt;/a&gt; which I recently came across where they give back story on the logos and additional bits. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may be interested in the Google Logos blog &#8211; <a href="http://googlelogos.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://googlelogos.blogspot.com/</a> which I recently came across where they give back story on the logos and additional bits.</p>
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		<title>By: Alec</title>
		<link>http://www.saunderslog.com/2006/04/21/whos-the-ars-now-google-vs-miro/#comment-1459</link>
		<dc:creator>Alec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Apr 2006 21:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saunderslog.com/?p=2376#comment-1459</guid>
		<description>So, Bro&#039;... have you looked at the paintings the Google logo was allegedly derived from? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, Bro&#039;&#8230; have you looked at the paintings the Google logo was allegedly derived from?</p>
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		<title>By: MatthewS</title>
		<link>http://www.saunderslog.com/2006/04/21/whos-the-ars-now-google-vs-miro/#comment-1458</link>
		<dc:creator>MatthewS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Apr 2006 12:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saunderslog.com/?p=2376#comment-1458</guid>
		<description>I always did get Klee and Miro mixed in Art History!  Still, Twittering Machine is pretty cool. 
 
Here are the issues.  You may not use elements of another&#039;s copyright work without permission.  The exception to this is that art that has fallen into public domain.  For those that are still privately owned 1)  You may quote small portions of work or bodies of work for the sole purpose of education and criticsm.  2)  You may not have financial gain from making use of someone else&#039;s work.  3)   You may not widely circulate a portion of another person&#039;s work unless it is for criticsm.  Google fails the circulation test.  Fails the financial gain test (although we could argue about this).  And it clearly wasn&#039;t using Miro&#039;s elements for the sole purpose of education or critiscm.  This is even the case if you couldn&#039;t redially see where the elements came from. 
 
Simply because you can devine where the elements were taken from over an Internet optimized image of the artwork, doesn&#039;t mean its not true. 
 
They were in the wrong and, while I can&#039;t abide by the tactics taken by groups like ARS/RIAA/MPAA, this action was perfectly fair. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always did get Klee and Miro mixed in Art History!  Still, Twittering Machine is pretty cool. </p>
<p>Here are the issues.  You may not use elements of another&#039;s copyright work without permission.  The exception to this is that art that has fallen into public domain.  For those that are still privately owned 1)  You may quote small portions of work or bodies of work for the sole purpose of education and criticsm.  2)  You may not have financial gain from making use of someone else&#039;s work.  3)   You may not widely circulate a portion of another person&#039;s work unless it is for criticsm.  Google fails the circulation test.  Fails the financial gain test (although we could argue about this).  And it clearly wasn&#039;t using Miro&#039;s elements for the sole purpose of education or critiscm.  This is even the case if you couldn&#039;t redially see where the elements came from. </p>
<p>Simply because you can devine where the elements were taken from over an Internet optimized image of the artwork, doesn&#039;t mean its not true. </p>
<p>They were in the wrong and, while I can&#039;t abide by the tactics taken by groups like ARS/RIAA/MPAA, this action was perfectly fair.</p>
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		<title>By: Alec</title>
		<link>http://www.saunderslog.com/2006/04/21/whos-the-ars-now-google-vs-miro/#comment-1457</link>
		<dc:creator>Alec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Apr 2006 00:13:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saunderslog.com/?p=2376#comment-1457</guid>
		<description>Hey Matthew, 
 
Thanks for the informative comment. 
 
I did Google &quot;Twittering Machine&quot;, but Google thinks it&#039;s a work by Paul Klee, not Miro. 
 
More to the point, though, I also Googled the three paintings that are alleged to have been copied. Google&#039;s logo allegedly incorporated images from Miro&#039;s ``The Escape Ladder,&#039;&#039; 1940, ``Nocture,&#039;&#039; 1940, and ``The Beautiful Bird Revealing the Unknown to a Pair of Lovers,&#039;&#039; 1941. 
 
I don&#039;t see it.  I don&#039;t think most people would either.  Their logo doesn&#039;t appear to be derivative, nor does it appear to overtly include any recognizable elements of the three paintings. Something similar to the eyeball in the logo appears as one of many eyeballs in the third painting. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Matthew, </p>
<p>Thanks for the informative comment. </p>
<p>I did Google &quot;Twittering Machine&quot;, but Google thinks it&#039;s a work by Paul Klee, not Miro. </p>
<p>More to the point, though, I also Googled the three paintings that are alleged to have been copied. Google&#039;s logo allegedly incorporated images from Miro&#039;s &#8220;The Escape Ladder,&#039;&#039; 1940, &#8220;Nocture,&#039;&#039; 1940, and &#8220;The Beautiful Bird Revealing the Unknown to a Pair of Lovers,&#039;&#039; 1941. </p>
<p>I don&#039;t see it.  I don&#039;t think most people would either.  Their logo doesn&#039;t appear to be derivative, nor does it appear to overtly include any recognizable elements of the three paintings. Something similar to the eyeball in the logo appears as one of many eyeballs in the third painting.</p>
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		<title>By: MatthewS</title>
		<link>http://www.saunderslog.com/2006/04/21/whos-the-ars-now-google-vs-miro/#comment-1456</link>
		<dc:creator>MatthewS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 19:36:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saunderslog.com/?p=2376#comment-1456</guid>
		<description>Alec, 
 
I&#039;m shocked that you didn&#039;t know about Miro.  Google &quot;Twittering Machine&quot;. 
 
I disagree with you on the Fair Use notion.  I am not a lawyer either--but I am an artist and I did teach a University class in copyright law in the arts. 
 
What Google did is the creation of a &quot;Derivative Work&quot;.  Copyright protects the notion is that artists have the right to control the use of their work.  Derivative work is covered under the Artist&#039;s copyright.  Fair Use assumes that there will not be mass delivery of that has the potential to harm the artist (or estate&#039;s) ability to enjoy the benefits of creation (selling work).  Google DID stand to gain by use of Miro&#039;s work through secondary advertising revenue. 
 
Google&#039;s use of Miro&#039;s imagery clearly did not fall under the umbrella of Fair Use because of its mass circulation of the work and the possiblity of monetary gain from that circulation. 
 
I don&#039;t like the MPAA or RIAA attack on fair use (I should be able to make a legal copy of a movie I bought as a back up.  I should be able to listen to music I bought legally from my iPod or on my stereo in the CD player).  But I shouldn&#039;t be allowed to share that music with thousands of others.  I shouldn&#039;t even be allowed to share PART of that music with thousands of others without permission.  The same goes for art work.  If they had created their own unique Miro-like images instead of using pieces of existing work, they would have been fine. 
 
Google should have requested permission from Miro&#039;s estate.  They probably would have recieved it. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alec, </p>
<p>I&#039;m shocked that you didn&#039;t know about Miro.  Google &quot;Twittering Machine&quot;. </p>
<p>I disagree with you on the Fair Use notion.  I am not a lawyer either&#8211;but I am an artist and I did teach a University class in copyright law in the arts. </p>
<p>What Google did is the creation of a &quot;Derivative Work&quot;.  Copyright protects the notion is that artists have the right to control the use of their work.  Derivative work is covered under the Artist&#039;s copyright.  Fair Use assumes that there will not be mass delivery of that has the potential to harm the artist (or estate&#039;s) ability to enjoy the benefits of creation (selling work).  Google DID stand to gain by use of Miro&#039;s work through secondary advertising revenue. </p>
<p>Google&#039;s use of Miro&#039;s imagery clearly did not fall under the umbrella of Fair Use because of its mass circulation of the work and the possiblity of monetary gain from that circulation. </p>
<p>I don&#039;t like the MPAA or RIAA attack on fair use (I should be able to make a legal copy of a movie I bought as a back up.  I should be able to listen to music I bought legally from my iPod or on my stereo in the CD player).  But I shouldn&#039;t be allowed to share that music with thousands of others.  I shouldn&#039;t even be allowed to share PART of that music with thousands of others without permission.  The same goes for art work.  If they had created their own unique Miro-like images instead of using pieces of existing work, they would have been fine. </p>
<p>Google should have requested permission from Miro&#039;s estate.  They probably would have recieved it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mathew Ingram</title>
		<link>http://www.saunderslog.com/2006/04/21/whos-the-ars-now-google-vs-miro/#comment-1455</link>
		<dc:creator>Mathew Ingram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 16:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saunderslog.com/?p=2376#comment-1455</guid>
		<description>Alec, I&#039;m glad you wrote about this, because you essentially wrote the post that I would have written if I had had the time. I think copyright clearing houses like ARS tend to make things worse rather than better, and this strikes me as a particularly egregious example. Google&#039;s use -- or adaptation -- of the work falls squarely within fair use, not to mention the fact that it is a tribute and not a ripoff. Making a big deal out of it cheapens the whole idea of artists&#039; rights. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alec, I&#039;m glad you wrote about this, because you essentially wrote the post that I would have written if I had had the time. I think copyright clearing houses like ARS tend to make things worse rather than better, and this strikes me as a particularly egregious example. Google&#039;s use &#8212; or adaptation &#8212; of the work falls squarely within fair use, not to mention the fact that it is a tribute and not a ripoff. Making a big deal out of it cheapens the whole idea of artists&#039; rights.</p>
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		<title>By: Alec</title>
		<link>http://www.saunderslog.com/2006/04/21/whos-the-ars-now-google-vs-miro/#comment-1454</link>
		<dc:creator>Alec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saunderslog.com/?p=2376#comment-1454</guid>
		<description>You know Gary, I hadn&#039;t thought of the angle that the artist may have opposed corporate use of his art, but if that were the case, then why wouldn&#039;t ARS just come out and state that? It would certainly be more compelling, in my opinion, to know that the artists express wishes were being followed. 
 
And yes, I agree that creating a corporate logo out of someone&#039;s art would be bad behaviour.  My view of this instance in which the modified Google logo was used for one day of the year to celebrate the artists birthday is that it&#039;s more like an individual creating a personally relevant greeting card for an admired person than a corporate rip-off of copyrighted material.  Whew... how&#039;s that for run-on sentence? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know Gary, I hadn&#039;t thought of the angle that the artist may have opposed corporate use of his art, but if that were the case, then why wouldn&#039;t ARS just come out and state that? It would certainly be more compelling, in my opinion, to know that the artists express wishes were being followed. </p>
<p>And yes, I agree that creating a corporate logo out of someone&#039;s art would be bad behaviour.  My view of this instance in which the modified Google logo was used for one day of the year to celebrate the artists birthday is that it&#039;s more like an individual creating a personally relevant greeting card for an admired person than a corporate rip-off of copyrighted material.  Whew&#8230; how&#039;s that for run-on sentence?</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Will</title>
		<link>http://www.saunderslog.com/2006/04/21/whos-the-ars-now-google-vs-miro/#comment-1453</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 11:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saunderslog.com/?p=2376#comment-1453</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s certainly not plagiarism, since the source was acknowledged -- very publicly. It probably was a violation of copyright, but it was one that would might have benefitted everyone. But for all I know, the artist might have opposed the corporate use of his art, which would make it understandable for his family to be upset. Creating a corporate logo out of somone&#039;s art without their permission isn&#039;t something I would generally want to encourage, even if you can get away with it legally. But that doesn&#039;t mean that ARS isn&#039;t another lawyer-run parade of twits like the RIAA or CRIA. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#039;s certainly not plagiarism, since the source was acknowledged &#8212; very publicly. It probably was a violation of copyright, but it was one that would might have benefitted everyone. But for all I know, the artist might have opposed the corporate use of his art, which would make it understandable for his family to be upset. Creating a corporate logo out of somone&#039;s art without their permission isn&#039;t something I would generally want to encourage, even if you can get away with it legally. But that doesn&#039;t mean that ARS isn&#039;t another lawyer-run parade of twits like the RIAA or CRIA.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Bailey</title>
		<link>http://www.saunderslog.com/2006/04/21/whos-the-ars-now-google-vs-miro/#comment-1452</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 10:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saunderslog.com/?p=2376#comment-1452</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve always suspected that these rights clearinghouses, such as ARS, RIAA, MPAA, etc. have done more to hurt than help artists. I think this proves the point. Google tries to celebrate an artist&#039;s birthday, does a tribute to him and gets a cease and desist for their effort. How many thousands, if not millions, of people have no clue about the existence of Miro&#039;s artwork that would have if the logo had remained? 
 
Honestly though, the case is weak anyway. I am not a lawyer either, but you can&#039;t copyright an idea or a style. It has to be something in a fixed medium. They weren&#039;t trying to pretend that Miro painted the logo, kind of hard sine Miro died in &#039;83, nor were they indicating a relationship that didn&#039;t exist. I don&#039;t see much grounds for copyright, trademark or any other kind of infringement. 
 
Certainly though, any potential case is overshadowed by the benefit it could do to the Miro name. 
 
It&#039;s just a case of a rights clearinghouse earning their keep by sabotaging the artists they are supposed to represent. It&#039;s a bad move for everyone. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;ve always suspected that these rights clearinghouses, such as ARS, RIAA, MPAA, etc. have done more to hurt than help artists. I think this proves the point. Google tries to celebrate an artist&#039;s birthday, does a tribute to him and gets a cease and desist for their effort. How many thousands, if not millions, of people have no clue about the existence of Miro&#039;s artwork that would have if the logo had remained? </p>
<p>Honestly though, the case is weak anyway. I am not a lawyer either, but you can&#039;t copyright an idea or a style. It has to be something in a fixed medium. They weren&#039;t trying to pretend that Miro painted the logo, kind of hard sine Miro died in &#039;83, nor were they indicating a relationship that didn&#039;t exist. I don&#039;t see much grounds for copyright, trademark or any other kind of infringement. </p>
<p>Certainly though, any potential case is overshadowed by the benefit it could do to the Miro name. </p>
<p>It&#039;s just a case of a rights clearinghouse earning their keep by sabotaging the artists they are supposed to represent. It&#039;s a bad move for everyone.</p>
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